Tools of Chrisitan Reconstruction: Understanding the commandments by understanding the case laws and wisdom of the Word of God.

Deuteronomy 19:15-21
15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.
16 If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong;
17 Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the Lord, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days;
18 And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother;
19 Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you.
20 And those which remain shall hear, and fear, and shall henceforth commit no more any such evil among you.
21 And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.

Numbers 35:30
Whoso killeth any person, the murderer shall be put to death by the mouth of witnesses: but one witness shall not testify against any person to cause him to die.

Deuteronomy 17:6-13
6 At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.
7 The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil away from among you.
8 If there arise a matter too hard for thee in judgment, between blood and blood, between plea and plea, and between stroke and stroke, being matters of controversy within thy gates: then shalt thou arise, and get thee up into the place which the Lord thy God shall choose;
9 And thou shalt come unto the priests the Levites, and unto the judge that shall be in those days, and enquire; and they shall shew thee the sentence of judgment:
10 And thou shalt do according to the sentence, which they of that place which the Lord shall choose shall shew thee; and thou shalt observe to do according to all that they inform thee:
11 According to the sentence of the law which they shall teach thee, and according to the judgment which they shall tell thee, thou shalt do: thou shalt not decline from the sentence which they shall shew thee, to the right hand, nor to the left.
12 And the man that will do presumptuously, and will not hearken unto the priest that standeth to minister there before the Lord thy God, or unto the judge, even that man shall die: and thou shalt put away the evil from Israel.
13 And all the people shall hear, and fear, and do no more presumptuously.

Matthew 18:15-22 & 23-35
15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

Matthew 18:23-35
23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Matthew 26:59-66
59 Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death;
60 But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses,
61 And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.
62 And the high priest arose, and said unto him, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?
63 But Jesus held his peace, And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.
66 What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death.

1 Timothy 5:19-20
19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.
20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

Hebrews 10:28-31
28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Transcript:

Jeremy Walker: 00:00 This is Jeremy Walker, and you are listening to the Tools of Christian Reconstruction, a production of Christian Reconstruction 101, and our website is ChristianReconstruction101.com. We like to remind our listeners that this production of the Tools of Christian Reconstruction is brought to you by the GCS Apprenticeship Program, a program that seeks to find young men and women and teach them how to become successful Christian school teachers and how to own and operate their very own Christian school. If that sounds of interest to you or someone you know, please visit their website at GCSApprenticeship.com. If you’re new to the Tools of Christian Reconstruction, this podcast is meant to go over the laws of God and the case laws, of course which all go with the different laws of God.

Jeremy Walker: 00:47 Now, the 10 commandments are a summation of all the laws of God, the laws and the prophets. If you’re unfamiliar with what case laws are, all the individual laws throughout the Bible are considered case laws. We also have a list currently which we’re building on our website at ChristianReconstruction101.com. You’ll find something called the 10 commandments on one of our menus. You can select that, select the different commandments, one through 10, and see various case laws in which kind of commandments do they fall into. Is it honor thy father and mother, thou shalt not kill? All the different case laws fall under one of the broader commandments of the 10 commandments. Today, however, we’re going to jump into the ninth commandment, considering the concept of thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. The text we’re going to be covering is something that is very controversial because this episode is entitled At the Mouth of Two or More Witnesses.

Jeremy Walker: 01:46 Now, I don’t have to tell the listener, if you’re paying attention Christianity at all, politics as well, that the concept of witnesses and finding the truth is something that is very important. It’s very debated, actually, not only in politics and the world in general, but also in Christian circles, but it should not be. We’re going to discuss Deuteronomy 19:15 through 21 and many other Biblical passages. I just wanted to cover a few things about what we’re going to be talking about, and I want to make this clear, so I’m just going to state it out there. We’ll cover the verses that have to do with it. Then, we’re going to wrap it all up into how this applies to us today, because that’s the number one really important thing you should really think about. How is the Christian supposed to live? I mean, how do the commandments apply to us today? Well, let’s go ahead and jump into what I will be covering today, what I think is the concept in the Bible about the requirement of two to three witnesses, and how it’s covered.

Jeremy Walker: 02:49 Number one, it is a clear and basic Biblical fact that in all things the requirement of two or more eyewitnesses is absolutely required before any form of church discipline or civil punishments can be applied. To deny this is to deny scripture and the God of scripture. That’s the first thing that I want to make sure and certain that the listener pays attention to. Number two, it is a clear and undeniable fact that God’s requirement of two or three eyewitnesses is talking about just that, an eyewitness. An eyewitness is clearly a person that is giving personal testimony to something that they have personally seen with their own eyes. Number three, it is a clear and undeniable fact that “evidence” is never used in the Bible to determine guilt but only to support an eyewitness testimony of a person or discredit the testimony of a false witness. Evidence itself could never be used to prosecute someone.

Jeremy Walker: 03:54 That’s a very important fact. It’s something we’re going to touch on here when we cover the Bible verses, and it’s not something that’s up for discussion, and people that hold evidence can be used to prosecute somebody are anti-Biblical. Number four, it is clear that God’s law demands definitive punishments against those that commit certain crimes, but it is also clear that enforcing the laws that were deserving of death penalty were not loosey-goosey or widely applied against all sinners. The hard line requirement of two or three eyewitnesses prevented wrongful conviction, false conviction, and gave time and grace to evildoers, giving them the opportunity to repent and to cease their evil deeds. This is going to be something that’s very important that we’re going to cover.

Jeremy Walker: 04:44 Many people see the laws of God as very hard line, complicated, sometimes harsh, sometimes dogmatic, sometimes overbearing, but the real thing is that the laws of God are none of those things. They don’t seek grace in law, but, in fact, if you understand God’s law, it is absolutely full of grace, opportunity for repentance, opportunity for reconciliation. We’re going to cover that. Number five, it is clear that God’s law is meant to be a deterrent for man in order to suppress evil deeds through fear of prosecution. God’s law is meant to never need to be applied. That is something that people just do not understand. The laws of God are not meant there because God wants to go around and punish people, catch people, kill people, all the rest that people want to claim and really blaspheme God.

Jeremy Walker: 05:45 The laws of God are repeatedly stated that they will hear and fear and not do evil, so they’re meant to be a deterrent. They’re not meant to be applied in the first place. In fact, if we were all good people who did not sin in the first place, there wouldn’t need to be a fear of punishment, but the fear of punishment has to be there for sinful men not to do certain things. Number six, it is clear that the only people that will be successfully prosecuted will be the very worst and most flagrant sinners. This corrupt element in society will be dealt with and removed from a godly society to preserver morality and security of the society as a whole. Now, we’re going to touch on this in a minute about how it is that, in general, people that commit sins could not be prosecuted. That’s something that people don’t talk about.

Jeremy Walker: 06:38 They only talk about God wants the death penalty for this and God wants the death penalty for that. Yes, but what is it that they have to have in order to actually prosecute for the death penalty? Nobody talks about that. They want to ignore that entirely. When it is talked about, people say that God’s law is too lenient, God’s law allows evil people to get away with things. Let’s go ahead and jump into the Biblical passages I want to touch on, Deuteronomy 19:15 through 21. We’re going to discuss a lot of Biblical passages as we move forward, so let’s go ahead and get started. I want to back up everything I’ve just said with Bible verses themselves. If you’re listening to this, this is how you have good doctrine. Let me say it again. This is how you have good doctrine. You read the Bible, you understand the Bible, and you agree with it. Let’s start with the basic Bible verses that cover the concept of two or three witnesses. There’s quite a few, but to begin with, Deuteronomy 19:15 through 21.

Jeremy Walker: 07:48 “One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established. If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong; then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the Lord, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days; and the judges shall make diligent inquisition. And, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother, then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother, so shalt thou put the evil away from among you. And those which remain shall hear, and fear, and shall henceforth commit no more any such evil among you. And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.”

Jeremy Walker: 08:46 This is the very first Biblical passage here which covers the basic concept of two or three witnesses. Here, it’s talking about not just a few things, any sin that a man sinneth. In other words, one person can not come up and accuse anyone of doing anything and then be prosecuted based on the testimony of one person. You have to ask yourself the question: Why is that? Well, perhaps it’s because God believes that mankind is a sinner more than you do, more than a church does. God really does believe that man is a sinner and he will try to use the law to hurt other people, in other words, take something that is good and use it as a weapon against those that he hates and wants to hurt.

Jeremy Walker: 09:33 You have to ask yourself the question: Is that happening today? Oh, you better believe it’s happening today. The law system in general is not an institution that tries to prosecute the evil, but, in general, the only person who is not safe in a courtroom are the innocent. The guilty, those kinds of people have very little fear of prosecution in general. In fact, most people in today’s society in court view the criminal as the victim, and the only people who are really guilty are the innocent. Moving on, let’s go ahead and say, “Well, Jeremy, I don’t think that’s enough. Just because God says two or three witnesses for any kind of sin, I just don’t think that’s enough. I mean, maybe you’re taking that out of context.”

Jeremy Walker: 10:20 Well, let’s move on. I want to cover as many passages as I can because this isn’t up for discussion. This isn’t up for debate. It’s not someone’s opinion like myself or someone else. Whenever you hear someone say there’s no need for two or three witnesses for something, they are anti-Biblical, anti-law, anti-God. They are saying that God did not say this. That, in and of itself, is blasphemy and bearing false witness. Let’s go ahead and cover Numbers 35 verse 30. Here we go. “Whoso killeth any person, the murderer shall be put to death by the mouth of witnesses, but one witness shall not testify against any person to cause him to die.” That’s Numbers 35:30. One witness, in the case of murder, can not testify against somebody in order for him to be put to death, not acceptable.

Jeremy Walker: 11:18 One of the most heinous crimes that any person can commit is murder. I know that people like to use the concept of two or three witnesses, I’ve heard it before, with the rape concept. Well, if somebody raped someone in secret, clearly it’s a secret crime and only one person might know that it happened. Maybe it’s a woman. Maybe it’s a child, but only one witness was there so we should be able to prosecute people based on the testimony of one person. Well, people like to use that as an emotional argument, but here, God’s using the murder concept. In the case of rape, a person is clearly defiled, they’re clearly shamed, demeaned in any shape, form, or fashion as much as you can, but in murder, not only are they all those things, but also their life is taken from them.

Jeremy Walker: 12:05 Murder is the ultimate type of sin that one person can commit against the other, literally taking their life. In here, God says, even in this case, if one person says, “I saw John Doe kill Jane Doe,” that was not enough to prosecute John Doe for the murder. You had to have two or three eyewitnesses in order to convict a person and put them to death. Now, this is where the rubber hits the road for people. This is where they say, “That is so restrictive. This is clearly a secret type of sin, and this is just not enough.” I’ve heard also somebody say, “Science has moved beyond God’s law because we have DNA, blood, so many other scientific methods in order to try to prosecute people. We don’t have to have the restrictiveness of eyewitnesses because we can have evidence.”

Jeremy Walker: 13:01 Well, I don’t have to go into here, and I won’t, but the concept that we can use evidences of sorts or evidences so-called against people has been used and abused now for decades to get people who wanted to prosecute people and to get false convictions and false prosecutions for people and use it against them, bald-faced lies that they know they have falsified information, falsified evidence, but then used it against to prosecute innocent people. Anybody who thinks that evidences are something that is better than an eyewitness doesn’t know God’s law, doesn’t understand the restrictions based on God’s law, and they’re supporting potentially the murder or the death penalty of innocent people. On the one hand, they would say, “We have to prosecute people who commit these sins because we want to protect the innocent,” but what happens if the innocent is the one being falsely accused, having evidence planted against them, and now they court system becomes the instrument of evil against the innocent? God’s law is not there by accident. Let’s move on.

Jeremy Walker: 14:15 Deuteronomy 17:6 through 14, “At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death, but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death. The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil away from among you. If there arise a matter too hard for thee in judgment, between blood and blood, between plea and plea, and between stroke and stroke, being matters of controversy within thy gates, then shalt thou arise, and get thee up into the place which the Lord thy God shall choose. And thou shalt come unto the priests the Levites, and unto the judge that shall be in those days, and enquire, and they shall shew thee the sentence of judgment.

Jeremy Walker: 15:02 And thou shalt do according to the sentence, which they of that place where the Lord shall choose shall shew thee, and thou shalt observe to do according to all that they inform thee. According to the sentence of the law which they shall teach thee, and according to the judgment which they shall tell thee, thou shalt do. Thou shalt not decline from the sentence that they shall shew thee, to the right hand, nor to the left. And the man that will do presumptuously, and will not hearken to the priest that standeth to minister there before the Lord thy God, or unto the judge, even that man shall die, and thou shalt put away the evil from Israel. And all the people shall hear, and fear, and do no more presumptuously.”

Jeremy Walker: 15:42 Now, this is important because here you now have that once again the requirement for two or three witnesses. You have things that are seeming to be hard to understand. Now they’re going to have to go to the Levites and all the rest. I’ve heard people use this and say, “Here, we don’t really understand, so we’re going to go try to find out, and they’re going to decide on a judgment. They’re going to come up with something. They’re going to just make an off the cuff judgment call on who they feel is guilty.” Wrong. If you read this again, once again, this was Deuteronomy 17:6 through 13, the Levites are going to read the sentence of the law that applied, and the only thing that was in question was that the people who are attempting to judge the case didn’t understand, number one, what the law was or how it applied. They were then going to learn this from the Levites.

Jeremy Walker: 16:38 If, however, anyone said, “We’re not going to do that. We’re not going to follow God’s law. I don’t agree with that judgment. I don’t agree with that whatever it is,” this person was then given the death penalty because they disagreed with God, they disagreed with God’s judgment, and they said, “I find fault with God.” This is where it becomes very dangerous for people whenever they say, “Two or three witnesses is not enough. We have science. We should abandon this kind of concept because evil people can get away.” In fact, I’ve heard somebody say before, “The best thing you could ever tell a rapist or a child molester or a murderer is that you have to have two or three eyewitnesses in order to convict them.”

Jeremy Walker: 17:25 They were finding fault with God’s law. They’re saying, “God, your commandments allow evil people to get away with doing evil, and we know better. We know better than you. We’re going to come up with a better situation, a better judgment, a better methodology.” These are presumptuous people. If you’re listening and you’ve thought these things yourself, you are presumptuous. Here, God doesn’t treat presumptuousness kindly. You might be against the abomination of various sexual acts and things like that, but have you ever thought that your concept of thinking God’s law is unjust or not enough was a sin of presumption and, because of that, you deserved the exact same things that you were trying to get for other people, a murderer who you wanted to have justice for them, and so you wanted to do better than God’s law?

Jeremy Walker: 18:28 God says, “You’re a presumptuous person to think that you know better than me.” We have to back ourselves up, and we have to be very careful with these concepts as Christians. You find fault with God’s law if you find that you think God’s law is not enough. Then, you’re questioning him, his judgment, and his reasonings for what he’s doing. I want to touch on a couple more things because I want to hammer down this concept of two or three witnesses. Now, this has all been Old Testament. Let’s jump into New Testament as well, and I want to do that because there’s some people out there that are, for some reason, thinking that Old Testament does not apply and maybe thinking that two or three witnesses doesn’t apply to us today. Let’s go ahead and jump into some New Testament passages that back up this subject.

Jeremy Walker: 19:14 Matthew 18:15 through 22, this is Jesus speaking, “Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church, but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Verily I say unto you, ‘Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.’ Again I say unto you, ‘That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.’ For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Then came Peter to him, saying, ‘Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him, till seven times?’ Jesus saith unto him, ‘I say not unto thee until seven times, but until 77 times.'”

Jeremy Walker: 20:24 That’s a Biblical passage, Matthew 18:15 through 22, where Jesus is talking about the concept of two or three witnesses and the importance of it. This is on a personal level. It’s not on a civil level. If somebody comes to you and they are sinning against you, they steal from you, whatever it might be, you’re supposed to try to repair the relationship. In other words, at all points in time, our jobs are not to just try get people into trouble but try to reform or repair our relationships with people. Jesus says here if that doesn’t work, take two or three people with you. Now, we can have witnesses to the fact of what’s going on. In other words, one person says one thing, the other person says another, they can kind of see how the relationship is going or the problems that are occurring. There’s witnesses now to the event.

Jeremy Walker: 21:08 If that doesn’t work, they need to take it to the church. If that doesn’t work, then the person is now ostracized from the community. This is excommunication. Now, this is not death penalty, but it is a form of excommunication, a form of shunning from the community itself, and it requires two or three witnesses and a community as a whole to do it. In other words, one person can’t say one thing against somebody and get any form of civil or social or church-related action against someone. It takes two or more witnesses. Moving on, there’s another one which we will cover. 1 Timothy 5:19 through 20, “Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses. Them that sin rebuke before all, that the others also may fear.”

Jeremy Walker: 21:58 Now, you’re not even supposed to hear an accusation without two or three witnesses. This means that people are going to listen to the accusations that are going on and that witnesses are going to be there to try to confirm what is being said and what is not being said. The concept appears again and again and again. Lastly, we’ll hit Hebrews 10:28 through 31, “He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses. Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, ‘Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense,’ saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

Jeremy Walker: 22:53 Once again, it’s just a kind of back up of the concept of people who despised God’s law. In this case, they called it Moses’ law, given by Moses, die without mercy under two or three witnesses. Now, this isn’t saying that a person committed a crime. This isn’t saying that they were a fornicator or an adulterer, a murderer, a homosexual, a whatever you put the name and blasphemer, any death penalty offense that you can think of in the Bible. It’s not describing any of those things. This New Testament is describing, and it’s also in the Old Testament, people that despised the law. These people were supposed to die a death penalty as well. This was a capital offense to despise God’s law, to think that God’s law wasn’t enough, to think that there was fault with God’s law. As we saw before, once they found out what the law was, the sentence of it, the law of it, they’re supposed to follow it, agree with it. If they didn’t, they were being presumptuous, and it was a death penalty offense backed up here by Hebrews as well.

Jeremy Walker: 24:07 The concept that anybody can say that two or three witnesses is not required by Biblical law is ridiculous. Go back over the things that I said at the beginning, but the main concept is that Biblical law would never need to be enforced because people would hear and fear. You’re going to hear that concept a lot throughout the Bible, people would hear and fear. No punishments could be prosecuted Biblically without two or three eyewitnesses. People say that the Bible did not have grace in the Old Testament. Yes, it did. Every single person who committed crimes could not be prosecuted unless they were the most flagrant types of people, who refused openly to obey God’s commandment. These were the kinds of people of society that were removed, not just the casual sinner who made a mistake or otherwise, but Biblical law allowed for a time for repentance, grace for repentance.

Jeremy Walker: 25:03 People don’t seem to think that or to understand that, but that’s what people were saying whenever they say, “Well, Biblical law allows evil people to get away with things because of the harsh requirement of two or three witnesses.” Make up your mind. Is the Biblical law too harsh or is it too lenient? Why is it that you can’t make up your mind? Why can’t we just say Biblical law is what it says it is and we’re supposed to agree with it? All the reasonings behind it aren’t really our question, the fact that if we apply it the way it is, God says, “This is how I want society to be run.” If all Biblical goes together, is fitted together, not one law here, one law there instituted, but all the laws put together, then the criminal society as a whole is suppressed.

Jeremy Walker: 25:50 In general, if it’s properly applied across the board, it’s used as a deterrent. It’s like having a nuclear bomb is what the death penalty is. It’s never really meant to be used, but if you have to use it, then you’ll have to use it, but it’s only against the most flagrant type of person, a person who is in a situation where two or three people could eyewitness what they’re doing. Think about sexual sins are typically private sins, murders, all the rest that goes with it. These are the most flagrant types of people. It’s very clear also God does not want people to be falsely accused. There is no fear of people anymore. If they lie about people, they have no fear that they’re going to be getting the same thing they’re trying to give to somebody else. We don’t even remotely live in a Biblical society. We can’t fathom what it would even look like.

Jeremy Walker: 26:40 The only thing people sit around, they find judgment and fault with God’s law, full of presumption. Is it any really big surprise that the church is falling apart as it is? It’s full of presumptuous people who despise God’s law, speak evil against it. Therefore, God is indignant towards them. I used the verse in Hebrews because it said this, “He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses. Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God?” I don’t think people have thought even to look to that verse before because, here, you have in the New Testament a support of the concept of those that despise the law deserved the death penalty, the support that two or three witnesses had to be there to support this fact.

Jeremy Walker: 27:42 The really important interesting thing was that to despise the Son of God was worse than any of those things. That’s why he says here, “Vengeance belongeth to me.” Moses’ law, the law of God in the Old Testament, is not nearly as severe. In other words, despising the laws of God we’re talking about here, were not nearly as severe as rejecting Christ and finding him of no worth whatsoever. That’s actually worse. A worse thing is going to come upon those people who reject the gospel. When’s the last time you heard that? When’s the last time you heard that something far worse is going to happen to these people? The Old Testament only had those people who had a death penalty for their actions.

Jeremy Walker: 28:36 Jesus warns people, “Why be afraid of men who can take your life when God can destroy the body and the soul in hell forever?” It’s a far worse thing that God is going to do to those people who reject the gospel, a far worse thing. If you reject the concept that God would punish people for basic sins that they do, you’re going to find a whole lot of fault whenever you think on this subject, that God says when you reject the Son of God, that’s far worse than any other sin that you could commit, murder, adultery, homosexuality, any of the sins that are found in the Old Testament or just the fact of hating God’s law in general, as we’ve been talking about here. To reject Christ, to reject the gospel message was worse than any of the death penalties of any of God’s laws. That’s something to wrap your head around for a second.

Jeremy Walker: 29:33 When we’re thinking about this kind of concept, we have to ask ourselves, “How does this apply today?” I hope that if the listener’s paying attention that the Bible at no point in time allows for anything except for two or three eyewitnesses only. Without that, there is no concept of prosecution, but how does this apply today? Lastly, I forgot to mention about the concept of evidence. Evidences are used and utilized only to back up the eyewitness. As we say, if there’s controversy between two people, they would do due diligence. If the person is lying, then that person would get what they were trying to do to the other person. This is where evidence comes in to verify or discredit a witness. That’s it. It isn’t used to prosecute somebody. There has to be an eyewitness.

Jeremy Walker: 30:20 Another one, we already went through this as well, about the death penalty itself, how it was enacted, those who were the witnesses had to have their hands against the person first. There’s none of this going to a courtroom, witnessing against somebody, and your job’s done. No, you had to actively assist in the death penalty and its implementation against the person whom you’re testifying. You had to be part of that process. This wasn’t the fact that DNA evidence or something else could be utilized. It had to be a physical person who could participate in the implementation of the death penalty, should that be the case of what’s going on here. Evidence is not in question here. Evidence is not in question whenever you are lying and then God says you get whatever you’re trying to do to somebody else. DNA can’t be prosecuted. DNA can’t participate in the implementation of a death penalty if that was a case of some sorts.

Jeremy Walker: 31:17 The concept of evidence being able to be used in these cases is not Biblical of any shape, form, or fashion. Now, most people aren’t going to listen to what I’m saying here, and they won’t listen to what the Bible has to say because they presumptuously disagree with it. Because of that, God says you deserve death. No matter what you’re saying about somebody else, when you yourself say, “God’s law, I disagree with it. I find fault with it. In fact, I think it’s evil. I think it allows evil to roam the planet,” whatever it might be, God says you, if there were two or three people that heard you say this, you dealt presumptuously, you refused to listen, you are also worthy of the death penalty as well. This should make Christians pay attention to what the things they’re saying. Guaranteed, they don’t know what they’re saying. They have no idea. They’ve probably never read these things before. Most people never pick up their Bible, never read it for themselves.

Jeremy Walker: 32:12 To end this, how does this apply today, two or three witnesses? I just want to give a few things here, and then we’ll close up. First, when dealing with a situation where only one person is making accusation and the accused refuses to confess, no action can be taken against this person unless the confession or there are two or more testimonies. This can be in your family with your children. This can be if you’re an employer, if you’re a judge. It doesn’t matter what the situation is. If you only have one person accusing somebody else, you can’t take a negative action against this person because there’s no information. The person’s not confessed to it. There’s only one person accusing. This person could be lying. You can not yourself become the agent of evil either with your children, with your spouse, with your employees. No matter what it is, you can not become the agent of evil yourself. Two or three witnesses are necessary.

Jeremy Walker: 33:05 Here’s the other interesting thing about it. Patience always pays off. If a person has done something wrong, they’re going to do it again, and next time they’re going to get caught. We learn this a lot with our children. I work in a school, and we deal with children at school. Sometimes one kid says one thing. Another kid says another thing. You have employees who one employee says one thing, another employee says another thing. When it comes down to it, you can always be patient. You can give warnings. You can tell people, “This is what they’ve said. I’m not sure if it’s true. You can deny it, but if it is true, we’re going to find out. If it does, these are the repercussions.” They can be told what the repercussions are. It could be fired or whatever it might be.

Jeremy Walker: 33:42 Patience always pays off. You always win out. I’ve been in this situation many times myself in the world of either my children or, of course, in the world of finance and work and business and all the rest. Yes, if there is a person who is a problem, they will do whatever it was they did again. Next time, there won’t be any question. It won’t be he said, she said. It will be, “I got you. I caught you. There’s information. There’s evidence. Now, there’s proof.” Now, of course, you can move forward with properly handling the situation. This is one way it applies. Also, this is also very important, just because somebody can’t be proven that they did something doesn’t mean that you can’t remove them or yourself from the situation, meaning that if there was somebody who was accused of something but there’s no real proof of it doesn’t mean that you have to invite them over to your house.

Jeremy Walker: 34:32 It doesn’t mean that they have to be part of your groups or your friendships. It doesn’t mean that you have to employ them. You could always just let somebody go and say, “I’m not quite sure here, but I’m just going to let you go. I’m not going to do anything further.” If they were accused of stealing, you don’t have to call the cops on them, that kind of stuff. You can always just say, “I’m just not comfortable hiring you.” Of course, no one’s under any obligation to hire anyone, and no one’s under any obligation to work with anyone for an employer. So both work both ways, or you can remove your children from situations and otherwise. You don’t have to worry about absolutely having two or three witnesses in order to take action. You just can’t have any actions that are more civil or church discipline and these types of things.

Jeremy Walker: 35:15 On a personal level, you can remove yourself from situations or your children from situations or your family from situations that you are uncomfortable with, where you yourself can be convinced that something is true and, very well, most likely is true, but you just can’t meet the obligations of two or three witnesses to have any further action on it. You can always just remove yourself from the situation. That’s a practical application of this concept. One thing’s very interesting. People are always more judgmental when they’re talking about other people than themselves. Let’s take this situation of the concept of somebody accusing somebody of rape or murder, otherwise.

Jeremy Walker: 35:52 Would you want to be accused of rape yourself, having somebody do that, your son, your wife, your husband, whomever it might be, based on the testimony of one person and have them be able to be prosecuted for this? No, you wouldn’t. You wouldn’t want this, but with other people, people aren’t always so understanding. They’re very much much more judgmental. I’ve heard people talk a big talk. When it comes down to it, though, is that people don’t ever want to be accused falsely. People don’t ever want to have to defend themselves when they’re actually innocent. They want the burden of proof to be on the accuser, which, under God’s law, is exactly the case. Anybody who accuses anyone of anything is under the burden of proof, not the accused. Under God’s law, you are innocent until proven guilty. In this case, you have to be accused by two or three people who are credible before you can be prosecuted.

Jeremy Walker: 36:50 Next thing I would like to finish up with here, another thing here is if God’s law was put into force with all the commandments, all together, it would suppress evil and remove evil elements from society in general. You can’t just take one commandment and say, “We should just put this in society, and everything will be fixed.” No, the whole law of God goes together as a whole. It’s like saying, “We have 10 commandments, but we’re only going to apply one of those. We’re going to apply the third commandment or the fifth commandment, but the other nine, let’s just avoid those.” It doesn’t work that way. All the commandments go together to create a godly society operated underneath God’s authority and God’s law. All these things, the concept of two or three witnesses doesn’t go by itself. It’s not an island by itself. It can’t be an island by itself.

Jeremy Walker: 37:35 There’s so many other things that are out there that are suppressants for evil, kind of like how we mentioned before, we’re going to get to this in one of our other episodes, about how if children grew up, now they were youth, we would call them juvenile delinquents. The parents would bring these juvenile delinquents to the courts and say, “We’ve attempted to be good parents. We’ve attempted to discipline our children, but they refused to listen to anything. They’re a drunkard. They’re a glutton. They refuse to do anything we’ve said, even after we’ve tried to discipline them. They refuse to honor us, respect us, and do what we say.” If this was the case, the parents, of course, were the two witnesses here. The court system would take this into account. If this was true, this then youth, which we would call a juvenile delinquent, was also put to death.

Jeremy Walker: 38:21 This is just one of the laws which were supposed to suppress evil. Imagine if juvenile delinquents were afraid that their parents had the power to go to the court system and if they said that their child refused to listen to them, now they’re old enough to be held accountable, we’re not talking about two-year-olds or five-year-olds here, we call them juvenile delinquents for a reason, but they come in here, and then the court system says, “Well, you haven’t listened to them. You should have listened to them first, so you’re no longer part of society. Death penalty for you.” Well, imagine if that was actually there. You know how it would not have to be in place? It wouldn’t even have to be done because they would hear and they would fear. It’s something that should never be implemented. We’re going to get into another episode of that, but just thought I’d mention it because all of the laws of God go together.

Jeremy Walker: 39:08 Lastly, of course, we’re just going to touch on the fact of what you should have learned from this episode, hopefully. That, of course, is that God has a hard line on two or three witnesses. There is no ifs, ands, or buts about it. The Bible is not equivocating about it whatsoever. The main problem is that people who hear this type stuff, they find fault with God. They find fault with God’s law. We’ve already read a couple verses here already that says that this is presumption of the highest order. This is contempt for God. It’s on the same level as murder. It’s on the same level as all the other death penalty offenses that are throughout the Bible because there is nothing higher than the death penalty itself.

Jeremy Walker: 39:47 To question the judgments of God, to say, “I find fault with them,” to say they’re too harsh, to say that they’re too lenient, to say anything besides, “I agree,” is to find fault with God, is to be presumptuous, is to yourself fall under a death penalty according to God. I thought the very interesting point, which I want you also to take away from this episode, is that all this is fine and dandy, but to deny the gospel is far worse than anything else, is far worse than any of the sins you can mention of any sorts, is to disrespect the Son of God and his work, his testimony, his sacrifice. To do that is far, far worse than any of the other sins that are in the Bible.

Jeremy Walker: 40:33 I don’t think I’ve ever heard anybody say that before or even talk about it before, but hopefully this is established at least in your own mind, the concept, if you’ve been unaware, that two or three witnesses are absolutely hard line required. You should operate along these lines for yourself if you take action in things or if you, of course, think that you should have church discipline with somebody or seek civil action against somebody. This is absolutely required by God. In your personal life, it’s also something you should practice, but you don’t have to wait for it in order to take action. In other words, you don’t have to keep yourself or your family or your wife or your children in situations that you are uncomfortable with just because you can’t “prove it.”

Jeremy Walker: 41:18 It just means that you can’t prosecute somebody, but it doesn’t mean you can’t separate yourself from people. I think that’s very important for people to understand. God does not say that we have to sit around and wait for a civil prosecution before we can do something. No, no, no. You have your own personal responsibilities. Separating yourself from institutions and people and situations is exactly what God calls parents to do and individuals. Thank you for listening to us again. This episode has been At the Mouth of Two or More Witnesses. You can find this episode and more on our website at ChristianReconstruction101.com. As always, we’d also like to remind you to visit the website GCSApprenticeship.com for more information about running a Christian school and learning how to become a successful Christian school teacher. Thank you and God bless.

“At the Mouth of Two or Three Witnesses”

Rev. Jeremy Walker